JAC Online

Interview with Commissioner Joe Noland
from JAC Issue Ten

JAC: Please tell us a little about your conversion.

JN: My first conversion took place at about age 11 during a Decision Sunday
in Sunday School. This was several years after some friends down the street
invited us to Sunday School at The Salvation Army. During those years, my
attendance had been an off-and-on experience. Then along came an officer who
took a special interest in me, and, under his guidance, I made my first
decision.
The second decision came after college graduation. I had turned away from the
Lord and the Army. The call of the world was very strong during those years,
and I had succumbed to it. But the seed had been sown earlier in my life,
and, through a set of circumstances, I felt myself drawn back, first to The
Salvation Army, and then to the Lord. Once again, it was another Salvation
Army officer (corps officer) who influenced that decision.

JAC: You are one of a select band of living SA pioneers of new
territory -Micronesia. Please describe that unique experience and the
spiritual footprints you left there for Salvationists to follow.

JN: Upon being appointed as the divisional commander for the Hawaiian
Islands Division, I soon had a vision that stretched throughout all of
Micronesia. One trip to the Marshall Islands was all it took. All my life I
had been drawn to the South Pacific. I could not have imagined that I would
even have the opportunity to travel there, let alone pioneer The Salvation
Army in that beautiful yet forlorn part of the world.
When I did arrive there, I found a great contradiction in terms. The
landscape was like paradise. The "peoplescape" was one of poverty,
hopelessness, and despair. The paradox was unnerving.
Seventy-five percent of the population is under the age of 25. Fifty percent
of the population is under the age of 15. There seemed to be no future and no
hope. For example, the Island of Ebeye has a population of 12,000. This
little atoll is about the size of six city blocks. It consists of shanty
upon shanty, the most humble abodes you could ever imagine. The palm trees
are all gone because there was not room for them. On our first visit there,
we held an outdoor meeting and people came by the thousands. The reception
and response was overwhelming. It didn't take me long to begin the work on
that island. We pitched a tent on the only land available, a dumpsite. I
immediately identified an officer couple to go. There was no place for
them to live, so we found a house on a little island five islands away and
bought them a boat to travel back and forth. The Lord has blessed that work.
I felt a sense of great urgency and desire to bring hope to a hopeless part
of the world. This spontaneous opening of the work continued to two other
Marshall Islands, Pohnpei and Guam. While in Guam, I found that the first
church opened there was started by two men who were converted in an open air
ministry in Honolulu, Hawaii, and became Salvationists. When they returned to
Guam, they wanted The Salvation Army to come, but it didn't happen, so they
started their own church. I love that part of the world and have a longing
to go back there. You will find my footprints still there in the sand of
those beautiful tropical beaches.

JAC: Please comment on how serving in different parts of the world has
impacted your Salvationism.

JN: It has broadened my perspective, increased my vision, and humbled my
spirit.

JAC: You have a reputation for making things happen. You have shaken up the
comfortable and mobilised the discouraged. Where do we stand in light of
General Booth's prophesy that, "If The Salvation Army will be true to God,
(we will reach the world) in the next fifty years" (THE GENERAL'S LETTERS,
1885)?

JN: In answer to this question, I have claimed Paul's vision as my own, "I
am made all things to all men that by all means I might save some." That word
"some" is the operative word in this vision statement. I believe that the
Lord has raised up The Salvation Army to reach "some." There are "some"
who are divinely set apart to be reached by our mission, I believe. We
must aggressively do everything within our power to reach that unique
"some." With every generation, that "some" will always be waiting for us.
Our mission should be conducted with aggressiveness and intensity, as if
the Lord were going to return tomorrow. That will take care of the next 50
years, if the Lord doesn't choose to return before that time.

JAC: You have begun publishing books in the last decade. What is your
purpose, and what are your hopes regarding them?

JN: I have been writing all my life. Like most creative people, I tend to be
introspective by nature. I feel that I communicate best through writing. The
creative process is like a high to me. It is better than alcohol or drugs
(and I tried a bit of those in my day). It is a cathartic experience.
A lot of my writing is now gone forever because I didn't put it into
published form. Thus, I am now committed to communicating my creative
expression as far and wide as possible. What good is a vision if it is not
communicated? And there is unbelievable power in the written word if it is
transmitted properly.

JAC: What books have had the greatest impact on you over the years? Why?

JN: The Power of Positive Thinking, by Norman Vincent Peale and Self Renewal,
by James Gardner. Next to the Bible, these two books have influenced my
thinking more than any others. By nature and upbringing, I tend to be a bit
negative and cynical in my thinking. Pessimism has dogged me all the days of
my life. The Power of Positive Thinking set me on a proper course and has
proved to me that all power is found in the positive.
When I first read Self Renewal back in the 60s, I purchased copies and sent
them to every Salvation Army leader. One of the premises of the book is that
organizational renewal cannot take place without self renewal. My copy of the
book is dog eared, underlined, asterisked, with large penciled in
exclamation marks on every page. Unfortunately, the book is now out of
print. I think it is a must for every Salvation Army leader. It was a book
way ahead of its time.
One of the most recent books I have read is Threshold of the Future, by
Michael Riddell. The byline reads, "Reforming the church in the
post-Christian West." This is a radical book that will set even the most
liberal among us on edge. I found it refreshing, stimulating, and extremely
forward looking. It does make one think beyond the boundaries. I purchased a
copy for every member of our Territorial Executive Council.

JAC: You have a Master of Science degree. The current General has no
degree; the last General has a doctorate. There are various schools of
thought as to the place of formal education in the Army. What is the proper
role?

JN: Education was very important for me. However, I don't see it as a panacea
for the future. Unfortunately, sometimes education becomes an end in itself
rather than a means to an end. This is when it can get dangerous.
Some of the finest officers I know have no formal education but their
practical experience has educated them beyond the most highly held Ph.D. I
have come to believe that the best education is found in the trenches. If that can
be coupled with formal classroom work, that can be a plus factor
for some people. I have come to believe that a lot of my formal education was
wasted because it was based in theory rather than practical demonstration. I
don't think the hallowed halls should be so hallowed in this present day.
This is a short answer for a very complicated subject. But I do think
education is moving in a more practical direction, as it should.

JAC: USA Eastern Territory now has an aggressive short-term mission. Please
outline it.

JN: This is really a ten-year mission. It follows my Vision 7007 model (with
the two "0"s forming an "infinity" symbol). Beginning with the year 1998, I
have challenged the corps in this territory to strive for establishing 700
corps in total. There are 70 million people in the USA Eastern territory; it
seems reasonable to me that we should have one corps for every 100,000
people by the year 2007, with 70 soldiers in each of them. If you breakdown the
7007, you will see embedded in that number 70 for soldiers and 700 for the
number of corps by the year 2007. The first "0" also represents a
circle of prayer. I have challenged the territory to form 700 prayer circles
of seven throughout the territory. The second "0" stands for eternal life,
and I have challenged the territory to a mission of aggressive and adaptive
evangelism that preaches this "life eternal" promise. Finally, the two sevens
together are the "bookends" for this vision. They symbolize holiness; seven
is the biblical number for perfection. So the foundation of this vision is
prayer, holiness, and aggressive, adaptive evangelism.

Now this really brings me to the next question.
JAC: You state that this USA Eastern Territory mission emerged out of a vision
from God. Can you explain this to salvationists inexperienced with prophetic
communication, in light of our early Army facility with this practice (note General
William Booth's collection called VISIONS).

JN: I have made it clear throughout the territory that this vision is a
mandate from God to me personally. One cannot mandate vision. True vision
comes from God. It is my responsibility to energize, motivate, and inspire
others to catch this same vision. I am His prophetic instrument.
There is no question that this vision came out of the creative depths of my
soul. It came easily and naturally. It was not something that I had to work
hard at. I am convinced that it is not contrived but inspired. True
inspiration cannot be explained. One intuitively knows when it is contrived
or when it comes from God. Vision is also always preceded by prayer.
I am not a person who subscribes to "signs and wonders." I look at things in
a more practical, unemotional way. I happen to think that this is the best
way. I do know, however, the difference between when vision is inspired and
when it is contrived. The only way I can explain it is that it comes out of
the depths of one's soul. It becomes all consuming. You know it when the
passion is there. It becomes an almost uncontrollable divine force.

JAC: Who are your heroes? Why?

JN: My heroes are the Mother Theresas of this world. The majority do not get
the attention and adulation that Mother Theresa did, but they are there. Many
of them are lifelong corps officers I have known through the years. They have
remained faithful and steadfast in the most difficult of situations.

JAC: General Catherine Booth went on record, stating, "The great fundamental
principle of The Salvation Army is the law of adaptation." This comment has
been used by many salvos at many times toward diverse ends. You have been
an initiator of change in three theatres of war over the years. What is the
proper understanding of this fundamental principle for us today, in light of
tensions between priestly v. prophetic roles?

JN: I think tension can be healthy if it is handled properly. The tension was
obviously there when Catherine Booth stated her "great fundamental
principle." I believe that adaptation is what made the Army unique, what set
it apart from other denominations. This principle is enunciated beautifully
in a recent book published here in the United States titled, Red Hot and
Righteous. The writer, Diane Winston, grasped this principle beautifully and
in context with the beginning of The Salvation Army here in America.
Change and adaptation are synonymous in my way of thinking. Where there is
change, there will be tension. The resolution of that tension will result in
either adaptation or extinction. Another great little book that came out
recently is, Who Moved My Cheese. It has been on the top of the best seller
list for a long time; that should say something about the importance of this
whole subject. I have just written an article for The Officer that makes a
spiritual and organizational comparison to the thesis outlined in this book.
The lesson is a very simple one- "we either adapt or we die. A part of my
prophetic role is to communicate this truth in a way that will move us
forward.

JAC: What is the most significant part of your ministry today?

JN: As the territorial commander, it is my responsibility to cast a vision
and then provide an environment for that vision to take hold and grow.
Empowerment is a big part of such a nurturing environment. Accountability is
the other side of the empowerment coin.

JAC: What are your dreams for The Salvation Army?

JN: My greatest dream is that The Salvation Army will lead the parade in
reaching what I call "the invisible twenty-three percent." The actual figure
changes depending upon the country and culture, but it refers to children who
are living in poverty. In this country, twenty-three percent of young
children live in poverty, where they are often subject to neglect and abuse.
These children represent the future. The better we are at intervening to
touch the lives of these children, the greater our chances are for a better
future.

JAC: What new challenges do you foresee for The Salvation Army in the 3rd
Millennium?

JN: The greatest challenge is that of change and adaptation. It must happen
quickly if we are to continue as change agents. The continuing challenge for
The Salvation Army is to stay focused on being change agents. In my opinion,
the recommendations made by the "Commission on Officership" are a very
positive step in the right direction.

JAC: What is God teaching you these days?

JN: God is teaching me that I must depend upon Him more. Every day in my
morning devotions I pray, "Lord, I cannot do this in my own strength. It can
be done only in Your strength." Whenever I have gotten into trouble, I can
trace it back to trying to do something in my own strength.

JAC: Can you tell us of any memorable preaching you have heard, and what
made it outstanding?

JN: I have always been fascinated with the preaching of Billy Graham. It is
so simple, so basic, yet so powerful. I've had the opportunity to meet him.
In fact, as the general secretary in Southern California I had the
responsibility of organizing and producing his 50th anniversary celebration
at the Beverly Hilton Hotel. He agreed to that celebration on the condition
that The Salvation Army receive all the proceeds. I met him and talked with
him at length. His genuineness and humility impressed me as I have never been
impressed before. I believe it is these qualities that make his preaching the
force it is.

JAC: How are you a different person and a different Salvationist from when
you were commissioned?

JN: Wiser, with many more bumps and bruises. I have always had a tendency to
go against the tide. Some of the things I did as a young, exuberant officer
were JPS (just plain stupid). I still take risks, but now I practice BDBS
(but don't be stupid).

JAC: What is your most memorable spiritual experience?

JN: There are a number of memorable spiritual experiences; it is hard to name
one that stands out above the others. When I go to an adult rehabilitation
center and listen to the testimonies, I am spiritually moved. When I hear an
adult testify about the spiritual intervention that took place in his or her
life as a child coming out of a traumatic environment, that really moves me
spiritually. It is during these times of testimony when the Spirit speaks to
me deeply and emotionally.

JAC: Please comment on the state of aggressive Christianity in the 21st
century. How relevant is primitive salvationism? What challenges will
millennium three bring?

JN: Please pardon the slang, but the state of aggressive Christianity in the
21st century "ain't what it used to be." I am not sure I like the term,
"primitive Salvationism." I don't think we want our Salvationism to be
primitive; I think we want it to be progressive. Can we learn something from
our roots? Absolutely! Are there "primitive" values that are as relevant
today as they were then? No question about it!
The challenge is to take those values and clothe them in a contemporary
style. The challenge is to stay progressive without losing sight of our
roots, to take those primitive beginnings and adapt them to a progressive
now. May it be so!

 

 

 

   

 

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